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Magnolia Community Forums: Announcements: An outlook on the editions of Magnolia


  • gjoseph
    gjoseph
    Full name: Grégory Joseph
    Posts: 1,031
    Last post: Sep 15, 2015 9:56:30 AM
    An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #1 by gjoseph on Sep 9, 2011 4:34:48 PM

    Hi,

    Following my email announcing 4.5 yesterday, here is another, less time-constrained, topic which we want to expose and discuss.

    There's an old itch that Magnolia, as a company, has wanted to scratch for a while: we need to have a clearer distinction between the community and the enterprise editions of Magnolia. It's always been a struggle explaining what was different, and why.

    We've talked to various community members, partners, customers; we've looked at what we have now and where the differences are, and realized that we can indeed streamline and simplify them. And in helping clarifying the distinction between the editions, we think we can drive the development of *both* editions of the product further.

    Our current plan is to turn the following points into enterprise features:
    * Multiple subscribers
    * Multiple sites (this is already the case, as implemented with ETK)
    * Workflow - at some point in the future, we will migrate to a new workflow engine, and this new module will most likely be EE-only.

    The rationale here being that, quite simply, those are features that are primarily used by larger enterprises.

    Conversely, we're looking into at least the following changes for the community edition:
    * STK's license changes to GPL. No more badge. We thought it was just time to get rid of that barrier. We're now hoping for a broader STK user base and eco system !
    * The imaging module goes to CE (GPL, open source and bundled with STK) - no more silly non-resized images with CE.
    * The commenting module will also go CE. This hasn't been discussed much just yet, but I assume you'll still have the choice to use an external commenting if you wish, but it just makes sense to have this module along side the forum module, which it depends on.

    These are the main current plans, anyway. Other changes or ideas are not out of the question, with the 2 main goals of streamlining the differences, keeping them where they make sense from a business perspective, all the while allowing greater adoption and participation with the product we all love.

    In terms of schedule, STK 2.0, which will come with Magnolia 4.5, will have its license changed. Other changes are currently not scheduled precisely, so we're perhaps looking at making those other changes for 5.0.

    We realize these changes might bum some people out, but we also think they will rejoice others; and that in general, it's a decision that will help driving the product forward. As always, we look forward to your feedback and will be happy to discuss or clarify points as needed.

    Cheers,

    Grégory Joseph
    Magnolia International Ltd.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    gregory.joseph@magnolia-cms.com http://www.magnolia-cms.com
    Magnolia® CMS - Simple Open-Source Content Management
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  • will
    will
    Full name: Will Scheidegger
    Posts: 425
    Last post: Aug 24, 2017 3:38:44 PM
    An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #2 by will on Sep 9, 2011 5:05:49 PM

    Hi Gregory

    I support your decisions for about 95%... and I don't care too much about the remaining 5% as I have closed this gap for my CE customers with custom code.

    + Multiple subscribers -> only needed in big setups -> EE feature
    - Multiple sites > this is my 5% where I don't agree. We'r already loosing against PHP hosting with Java solutions (money-wise). If we need to run each small STK site in 2 magnolia instances of their own, we definitely our out of the game for small customers. Currently we're running up to 20 and more sites in one Magnolia (JSP-Sites). And we're doing all new sites in STK.
    + Workflow -> definitely an EE feature
    +/- GPL (no more badge) -> we think Magnolia should get credit for the CE work. Only one of our customers could not place the badge on the site because of agreements with his sponsors (we did this site without STK). But you're right: It is a barrier for some and I don't think it helps you push your business in the magnitude that would justify this barrier.
    ++ Imaging: Finally! If I wasn't that busy I would have started my own imaging module looong time ago. Every little crappy PHP CMS has been scaling pictures out of the box for ages!
    + Commenting: Cool. Would be nice if that would be moved to CE quickly so that we can use it in the Blog module that we've talked about.

    I don't see too much reason why you should bum anyone with these changes. So thumbs up from my part.

    -will

  • anonymous
    Unger, Richard (Not registered)
    An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #3 by Unger, Richard (Not registered) on Sep 9, 2011 6:10:26 PM

    Hello Grégory!

    As a user of both CE and EE (in different projects, for different customers), I think these changes are a mostly good idea.

    Especially bringing imaging to CE is really needed, IMHO. Although the 3rd-party SimpleMedia module exists as a "workaround", resizing images is really a feature everyone needs, not just large companies, and should be in CE.
    Removing the badge requirement for STK in the CE also seems like a good idea, especially with the upcoming new templating, which will make the STK much more useable out of the box, and hence attractive for all users.

    Moving Workflow to EE, and leaving Multi-Site there seems ok to me.

    Multiple Subscribers is a touchy one --> that basically means CE sites will be limited to one public instance, which can be quite a limitation (no load balancing, no fail-safe configurations possible). In my mind, it can't really be assumed that a "simple" site, that doesn't need any of the EE features, will not need to be high-available, or will not need to scale to support large loads. I'd prefer to keep multiple subscribers in the CE.

    How about categorization? Will that remain EE only?

    Regards from Vienna,

    Richard

  • mderting
    mderting
    Full name: Matt Dertinger
    Posts: 65
    Last post: Feb 17, 2012 2:58:16 PM
    An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #4 by mderting on Sep 10, 2011 7:16:16 PM

    Hi Greg,

    This is great news. Especially with regards to commenting and imaging going
    to the community.

    To add to Richards reply, has there been any discussion about moving the
    Categorization module to the community? It would be really nice if Twigs
    could depend on the Categorization module without having to fork features
    for CE and EE users. I think other Forge projects could benefit from
    Categorization being a community module, for instance a possible Blog module
    (as Will already mentioned).

    Thoughts?

    Cheers,
    Matt

  • pbaerfuss
    pbaerfuss
    Full name: Philipp Bärfuss
    Posts: 266
    Last post: Mar 23, 2016 3:57:59 PM
    Registered on: Nov 3, 2010
    An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #5 by pbaerfuss on Sep 13, 2011 8:57:32 AM

    > Categorization module to the community?

    Thanks for all the feedback. Yes the categorization goes CE ;-)

    - philipp

  • kraft
    kraft
    Full name: Boris Kraft
    Posts: 132
    Last post: Jun 16, 2015 9:52:16 PM
    Re: An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #6 by kraft on Sep 13, 2011 11:13:27 AM

    On Sep 9, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Will Scheidegger wrote:

    > +/- GPL (no more badge) -> we think Magnolia should get credit for the CE work. Only one of our customers could not place the badge on the site because of agreements with his sponsors (we did this site without STK). But you're right: It is a barrier for some and I don't think it helps you push your business in the magnitude that would justify this barrier.

    +1 for credit where credit is due. We'll keep the badge in by default, and yes some will remove it (as they will then be allowed to), but overall I expect many more people to work with STK, and in total an increase of keyword-heavy back-links, which is what this thing is all about.

    - B

  • kraft
    kraft
    Full name: Boris Kraft
    Posts: 132
    Last post: Jun 16, 2015 9:52:16 PM
    Re: An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #7 by kraft on Sep 13, 2011 11:44:18 AM

    On Sep 9, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Will Scheidegger wrote:

    > - Multiple sites > this is my 5% where I don't agree. We'r already loosing against PHP hosting with Java solutions (money-wise). If we need to run each small STK site in 2 magnolia instances of their own, we definitely our out of the game for small customers. Currently we're running up to 20 and more sites in one Magnolia (JSP-Sites). And we're doing all new sites in STK.

    Unfortunately this is nothing we can tackle from our side. Multi-site is a huge value proposition for large customers, especially because it comes with a whole set of complexities.

    What you *really* mean here is a multi-tenant solution, which is a different business-, although technically related problem.

    In a multi-tenant solution, you don't share templates, you don't share users, you don't share content etc. All you share is the hardware and the request app server. This is each site in its sandbox.

    In a multi-site scenario, you must be able to share and manage arbitrary content, templates, users… whatever. But at the same time you need to ensure specific access rights etc. There is a lot of complexity there.

    From a business perspective, multi-tenancy is not interesting for Magnolia. If we'd have multi-tenancy, we would probably make it CE exactly for this reason - cool for small sites, good to compete against php solutions. But we don't have multi-tenancy. We have multi-site.

    Side note: Our goal is that we enable, entice and empower the community enough to add features they find interesting for their use cases. Magnolia 5 will make this much easier.

    - Boris

  • will
    will
    Full name: Will Scheidegger
    Posts: 425
    Last post: Aug 24, 2017 3:38:44 PM
    Re: An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #8 by will on Sep 13, 2011 1:51:59 PM

    Re-reading my own post... about half a dozen typos in 2 lines! I must have been _very_ tired. Sorry about that.
    And now back to the subject :-)

    I do understand your point. We don't need all the nice bells and whistles the multisite module is offering (e.g. url shortening and stuff -> if you _need_ that, you're in the EE market). I just need a way to run multiple STK sites in one Magnolia. No sharing of anything is needed. We don't call it "multi-tenacy", we call it "simple multisite" ;-)

    If I understand your side note correctly you are encouraging the community to come up with such a solution? So far I did not dare to promote this path since "multisite" is one of your key ee _pro_ features.

    -will

  • mderting
    mderting
    Full name: Matt Dertinger
    Posts: 65
    Last post: Feb 17, 2012 2:58:16 PM
    Re: An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #9 by mderting on Sep 13, 2011 3:50:38 PM

    > Thanks for all the feedback. Yes the categorization goes CE ;-)

    Yay! Thank you!

    Cheers,
    Matt

  • rakesh
    rakesh
    Full name: Rakesh Vidyadharan
    Posts: 175
    Last post: Mar 7, 2014 6:35:18 PM
    Registered on: Jul 18, 2012
    Re: An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #10 by rakesh on Sep 13, 2011 6:06:28 PM

    By and large the changes are fine except the decision to constrain CE
    users to just one subscriber. Everyone including small sites need
    fail-over capability. One of the clinching factors that lead us to select
    Magnolia when we were evaluating CMS options was multiple subscribers.

    Rakesh

    On 09/09/2011 09:34, "Grégory Joseph" <gregory.joseph@magnolia-cms.com>
    wrote:

  • will
    will
    Full name: Will Scheidegger
    Posts: 425
    Last post: Aug 24, 2017 3:38:44 PM
    Re: An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #11 by will on Sep 14, 2011 7:43:46 AM

    While I agree that multiple subscribers would be nice I would guess that 90% of all small sites don't have a fail-over system implemented. In fact, most of them won't even have a separation between author and public.

    Then again this would be an exceptional selling proposition for Magnolia where it would beat most of it's competitors hands down... Definitely something to take into account when taking that decision.

    -will

  • anonymous
    Danilo Ghirardelli (Not registered)
    Re: An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #12 by Danilo Ghirardelli (Not registered) on Sep 28, 2011 1:22:14 AM

    I hope I'm still in time to add my two cents...

    > Our current plan is to turn the following points into enterprise features:
    > * Multiple subscribers

    Yes, honestly I used multiple subscribers only in a few projects with
    CE, so it's correct to put this a enterprise feature, expecially when
    you can configure the public instances to be a cluster and just publish
    to one node. But the best solution in my opinion would be (if possible)
    to limit CE to two subscribers at most, just like versioning.

    > * Workflow - at some point in the future, we will migrate to a new workflow engine, and this new module will most likely be EE-only.

    I didn't get the plan here. The current workflow will be a EE feature
    only or there will be a new workflow module that will be EE-only?
    Honestly the current workflow engine never gave me the feeling of being
    "enterprise ready".

    Regards, Danilo.

  • gjoseph
    gjoseph
    Full name: Grégory Joseph
    Posts: 1,031
    Last post: Sep 15, 2015 9:56:30 AM
    Re: An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #13 by gjoseph on Oct 6, 2011 12:43:22 PM

    Danilo,

    There will indeed be a new module, most probably based on a different, more recent, workflow engine, and it will be ee-only. The existing one will probably not be maintained, although it's open-source, so if someone would volunteer, I guess we could move it to the forge (to be

  • gjoseph
    gjoseph
    Full name: Grégory Joseph
    Posts: 1,031
    Last post: Sep 15, 2015 9:56:30 AM
    Re: An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #14 by gjoseph on Nov 7, 2011 8:36:42 PM

    Just a quick note to update you on the progress of this - the STK's licensing change is done and applied !
    The imaging module has been updated as well, and it's moved to its new home at http://svn.magnolia-cms.com/svn/community/modules/imaging/
    Commenting and categorization modules are up next. See MGNLCMNT-54 and MGNLCAT-30 respectively.

    Cheers !

  • anonymous
    Simon Goodchild (Not registered)
    [magnolia-dev] An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #15 by Simon Goodchild (Not registered) on Nov 24, 2011 5:44:24 PM

    > I do understand your point. We don't need all the nice bells and whistles
    > the multisite module is offering (e.g. url shortening and stuff -> if you
    > _need_ that, you're in the EE market). I just need a way to run multiple
    > STK sites in one Magnolia. No sharing of anything is needed. We don't call
    > it "multi-tenacy", we call it "simple multisite" ;-)
    >
    > If I understand your side note correctly you are encouraging the community
    > to come up with such a solution? So far I did not dare to promote this path
    > since "multisite" is one of your key ee _pro_ features.
    >
    > -will
    >
    >
    Will, sorry for bringing up an old post, but if you and/or other people are
    interested in developing a CE module for simple multisite (now that
    Magnolia seem ok with that) let me know as would be keen to contribute to
    this. It's something we use a lot for smaller sites, using Apache rewrites,
    but a proper Magnolia solution that is easier to configure would be great.

    Simon

  • will
    will
    Full name: Will Scheidegger
    Posts: 425
    Last post: Aug 24, 2017 3:38:44 PM
    [magnolia-dev] An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #16 by will on Nov 24, 2011 5:59:23 PM

    Boris,

    You did not give us your opinion on this. Would you oppose having a multi-tenacy module for CE?

    -will

  • kraft
    kraft
    Full name: Boris Kraft
    Posts: 132
    Last post: Jun 16, 2015 9:52:16 PM
    Re: An outlook on the editions of Magnolia
    #17 by kraft on Jan 3, 2012 2:39:36 PM

    On the contrary, I would find it quite cool to have a multi-tenancy module. Or call it "hosting provider" module ;-)

    I suggest someone (you?) write a concept and we discuss there (wiki).

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